QB Roll Out Amendment

[OCFL Commish]

We've had several complaints about QB Roll Out. I was hoping this would not become a problem but it has so as in other leagues we are forced to now make this a rule.

Ammendment I.

QBs are prohibited from rolling out and taking down the passing icons, getting the DB to choose to between stopping the QB and guarding the WR, and then if the DB picks to stop run bringing them back up to pass and if not running your fast QB as the primary means of an intended offense. One way to contain this was by use of the DE, OLB or DB speed rush which is illegal and guys are taking advantage of that and cheaply using this tactic. I don' want to totally ban this as many team do run the QB quite abit, but many times are taking out there true starters and subbing faster QBs to take advantage of this by having a running QB and are exploiting that as a primary part of their offense. I deem this as CHEAP! Here is where we will stand with this rule:

It will be deemed OK 1 time per drive, if you are truly scrambling your QB and your WR gets open and you throw then pass to them. However, use of this tactic more than 1 time per drive is strictly ILLEGAL! Effective Immediately!

Thanks guys.

Bryce
OCFL Commish

["Sting"]

So this should mean that you can rollout with your passing windows up, then decide to pass or pull the windows down and run... but you then can't pull them back up to pass, right?

[OCFL Commish]

Right. If you do chose to pull them back up you can do that 1 time per drive.

[ssi7698]

I feel that this would hamper a teams offense that has a weak O line. With the abilty of blitzes to be incredibly effective on AA difficulty, sometimes the only way the escape pressure is to tuck and run outside and set back up to pass. On the flip side to this, yes it CAN be harder to defend a mobile QB but that is the point of having them, adding an extra thing for defenses to worry about. However, it is not unstoppable, people just have to adhust their defense to fit this and there in lies the problem I feel. Some people dont realize that u have to stop everything and think that if their normal style of play doesnt work then it is cheese or cheap or whatever word you want to use. just my 2 cents, take them or ask for a refund

[OCFL Commish]

I've had mixed response about this rule.

I think this is something we need the entire league to chime in on.

What are everyone's thoughts?

My position is this: I know how aggravating it can be for guys to pull the old trick from Madden 2003. Where they'd use Vick or McNabb (Both Super Fast QBs) and they would roll out take those icons down and run to the outside. Your Dline had no chance of catching them and the LBs would either get out ran or be in coverage as well. The only person to make a play the DB, but to do so he has to break coverage. If he doesn't the QB's getting 10 to 15 yds a pop, if he does...guess what, ICONS, pass still giving up 10 to 15 yds or more. That was so FRUSTRATING and CHEAP! What made that cheap you ask, the fact that pressure or not, situation pending or not guys would do this over and over and over again. Now I realize in college football this happens much more than in pro-football, but the thing to me is this. In real football there are no ICONS! So the ICONS are what actually cause the deception. If you ran out there with your icons up and if your player get open pass or if you cross the LOS and you run then I don't see a problem with that. BUT, having a guy bring those ICONS down appear to be running you make a decision and then they still pass. No defense for that as it basically is deception. That's my feelings. However, I'm willing for their to be a compromise.

HOW DOES THE LEAGUE FEEL? WHAT SUGGESTIONS TO MAKE THIS RULE FAIR TO ALL PARTIES DO YOU SUGGEST?

Thanks for the input.

Bryce
OCFL Commish

[ssi7698]

I understand but in real FB the QB can sprint and throw and ur oline picks up blitzes. I agree that people who roll out as soon as they get it are cheap but this rule also punishes and hampers people who only roll to get away from pressure which can happen more that once a drive with some O lines

[OCFL Commish]

That would be a legit situation in my opinion but the reason the rule is written the way it is because if I use the words "legit situation" that will be open to interpretation and guys will disagree on what is "legit" and what is not "legit"

Understand?

[Sigma4Life]

Use a QB Spy. Control him yourself and mirror the QB. Problem solved.

If you don't want to control the spy yourself, then back him a few yards away from the line so that he doesn't get caught on an offensive lineman in the middle.

The point is, if you are playing against a scrambling QB, you HAVE to use a spy virtually everyplay. That's just the way it is. Running QBs force you to limit the number of defenses you can call, just like in real football. Adjust and deal with it.

[ssi7698]

exactly my point sigma, I just played UGA and Shockley and had no trouble containing him with a spy.

[ISUGAMETIME]

my take on this is that a roll out QB is part of "real football" I feel there are several ways to stop this type of play........For one a QB spy is a good alternative....Next you can blitz the LB's to the outside and pinch your line down......You can also shift you line to one side and force the rollout to the other side where you have your blitz coming......IF non of this works the double CB blitz never fails........I just played a guy that had a mobile QB and hung 42 on him in the first half alone!!!(he was ARK and I was Miss St) I really don't consider this cheese b/c it is soooo stoppable.....The one problem would be a great team doing it to a weak team......But at the same time a weak team should be able to excape the pocket versus a good team.......


I think there is gonna be a lot of gray area if this rule goes into affect.......B/c me personally if I roll out I'm not thinking "oh wait I can only do this one time this drive" My rollouts aren't scripted or on purpose....I only do it if I get flushed.......

One amendment you could make to the rule is this......CHECK YOU OPPONENENTS DEAPTH CHART BEFORE THE GAME TO HAVE AN IDEA OF THE QB SITUATION.......If a backup QB is subbed in and he is 10 overall rating points lower than the starter, the rollout rule is in effect b/c you know the only reason for the sub of a vastly subpar QB is for the cheese reason you stated above.....

I think the main point here is for players to use their good judgement here.......

Overall I feel the rollout should be allowed......When it becomes a problem talk with that individual separately......I know this might be a pain, but this problem seems like one that most teams can't even do b/c their respective QB's aren't fast enough......

[JTC]

I've seen a rule similiar to this have to be implimented in other leagues, and it's worked very nicely. The reason it has to be implemented is b/c teams with fast QB's can exploit this. On 3rd and 10, just line up 5 wide, let the WR's get down the field, then the QB has plenty of time to roll out, and even a decent speed LB won't be able to catch him. Enough time goes by and he'll be caught in the OLine.

Then when the fast QB rolls out when the WR's are all gone, they'll pull the icons back up if the CB's let the WR's go beyond the zone, and pass it. Or if there is nobody for 15-20 yards, easy run for a first down. Play in EA Southeast #2 against Miami, I'm sure you'll see Crudup doing this a lot.

I had Texas and used Vince Young as my QB. My OLine at Texas sucked. But I still had great passing #'s, and rushing #'s (3,300 yards, 33pass td's, 6 int's, 500+ rush yards, 6rush td's). Not b/c I rolled out and made the defense choose if they wanted to come up on the run, or stay away and cover the pass. If I got pressured, I ran. I didn't pull up my passing icons after pulling down but maybe TWICE the entire season. If you want to roll out and either run or pass and make the defense choose, use an option pass. I also rarely ever use the same play 2x in a drive. 5x in a game would be absurd to me. 1 - keep the defense on their toes. 2 - i don't like plays or actions that work every time (aka money plays), it's cheap.

The only guy that can effectively spy is probably a Safety or CB. The only spy on defense in the game is the MLB. MLB's are naturally slow, but strong. Playing against a guy that rolls out constantly making the defense choose, and exploiting CB A.I. is far from fun. That's why it's been banned as a means of running the offense in other leagues. QB's scramble in real life, but they don't have slow MLB's that get caught up in the OLine worry about, they have someone faster watching them.

And yes you can move your guys around so that someone is faster at MLB. But still, it's the MLB spot. There are other responsibilities that MLB's have, like stuffing the run.

[JTC]

If a QB sorints out and someone is there to keep him from running, the throw away action is available. Basically guys will roll out, if someone is there, they'll pass. If not they'll get a nice run.

Regarding speed rushing - if a QB leaves the pocket (icons or no icons) he should be susceptable to a guy going after him with turbo. But it's not a speed rush. Speed rushing can cause the QB to roll out, that wouldn't be cool. But if a QB leaves the pocket, pursuing him with turbo is totally fine (but him rolling out shouldn't be caused by an initial speed rush).

[rhombic21]

My problem with the QB rollout is when the QB rolls out HARD at the beginning of the play, before he's even getting pressured, and then waits for coverage to break down, or runs for it if you pursue him with a DL or LB. If you think about it, there's really no difference between this and dropping back 25 yards and waiting for the coverage AI to break down.

I don't have a problem with people scrambling to avoid pressure, or to get a better angle to pass, but I hate when my opponent abuses the crappy DL AI to get 10 seconds to throw, no matter what. Then if you blitz heavy to contain the scramble, he's got dump off throws to burn you.

But on the other hand, I don't know that you can have a rule against it. There are PLENTY of occasions when scrambling is perfectly legit, and the defense should HAVE to respect the legs of a mobile QB, otherwise you take away some teams' biggest strength. Imagine Texas without a mobile Vince Young threat, or Missouri without being able to capitlize on Brad Smith's legs. If you disallow scrambling, or even hinder it severely, you allow the defense to gain an unfair advantage by dropping everybody into coverage, and forcing the mobile QB to play to his weakness - making plays from the pocket. In real life, teams can't afford to ignore the QB scramble threat, and that should hold true here as well.

In conclusion, I don't think we really need to make a rule against it. It's frustrating yes, and also cheap, but in the end I think it actually dretracts from the offense of those who use it, particularly against quality defenses. Usually the defense can force a few errant throws, or even get some fumbles if they play disciplined and smart. The truth is that if you are relying on the QB scramble/throw on the run, for the majority of your offense, then you probably are going to struggle anyways.

[lilkev42]

I think that it should be illegal unless ur being chased by someone, or just like once a drive but u cant just say hike and wait a lil then just run cuz u have a fast qb.

[TNation970]

Bryce,

I like the way that you have the rule written. Everyone has said a lot on this issue and there really isn't anything else that I can say that hasn't been said.

I think that the rule is "realistic" the way it is, you see this happen in real games , but it is not abused. I know of teams in this league that use this play everytime they need yardage, and I am sure that it is the reason the rule was written. There is a right way and a wrong way for this "glitch" to be used, and I feel that we are all grown and mature enough to play str8 and not cheese.

And as far has playing a QB spy every play to cover it, that isn't fair to the defense to have to call a certain type of play every play "just in case" the other player wants to cheat. That limits the effectivness of the defense..

Keep the rule like it is!! It covers it all.

OCFL Alabama