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Post by nole4real on Mar 23, 2004 16:56:53 GMT -5
I am impartial.
I rarely roll out and throw ('cept for some 3rd and longs)...and if I do...it will VERY rarely be more than once per drive.
I also feel confident enough in my ability to stop QB roll out guys who "stop n pop". I feel that if I am playing a guy who needs to do this.....I already have the advantage.
Granted I am a little better than your average bear at controlling the MLB's ;D ....but I have had great success in stopping the Vick's, Robinson's and the Young's of NCAA with that LB spy. Especially if you utilize the strafe which'll prevent you from being entangled in the line.
I understand the rule and the point of it and the intent to which it was created. I fully support the intent. I fully support the rule as stated and implemented.
I personally think that though it is difficult, as someone mentioned before it is stoppable.
I drool when I play a roll ou guy cause as soon as he breaks the plane of that OT and leaves the pocket, I am usually already there. Trick is to know his tendancy and which way he's going...
Anyway, enough of my blabbering. Gotta get back to work so I can get home.
In short...
I dont think the rule is necceasary, but I understand and support why we have it.
Also, if you would like to challenege me to make me back up my words and see how I can shut down.....errrr.....well, okay...maybe not shutdown....cause we are usally talking bout VT, TEX, and Penn ST......hit me up for a scrim and I'll show ya.
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Post by MtIndian on Mar 23, 2004 17:41:28 GMT -5
Just a simple....I'm in favor of the new rule.
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Post by ODogg on Mar 23, 2004 18:00:31 GMT -5
When I first read this rule I thought "What in the world, this is BS" but then I re-read it and I see what the rule is for. It's not to stop you from scrambling or from passing so much as it is to keep you from doing that stupid crap where you appear to be running to bait the CB in and then throw to a wide open guy.
I use Ohio State and I'm playing Troy Smith over Craig Krenzel. I'm not sure if it's coincidence this rule came out right after I won my last game but I will say that if anyone wonders why I'm starting Troy Smith, who's a faster QB, over a better one, Craig Krenzel, all you have to do is look at my numbers with Craig Krenzel earlier in the year. For whatever reason Craig wasn't getting it done for me so it's not because of Smith being faster so much as it's just that Krenzel was sucking it up. LOL.
Anyways, back to the rule, I think what the rule is actually saying is fair. It's saying you can't do the cheep, bring down the icons and saying "HEY LOOK AT ME I'M RUNNING WITH MY QB" to get everyone to come up and then throwing it to wide open guys. I have done this before using scrambling QB's but it's unintentional and I think that's ok. What I mean by that is for one, I've done it like maybe once a game, if even that, and for two, I did it because I really did plan to run, then someone comes up and I see my HB or Flanker open like 5 yards or so in front of me and throw to him.
Also, one other note, this is one of those tactics which, when used very sparingly is not really cheese but is far too often abused and becoming cheese. Basically same as no one can say HAIL MARY play is cheese but running it 50 times a game most certainly is cheese. Same thing here. The QB rolling out and doing this in itself is not cheese but eventually people can become too comfortable in this method of play and it becomes exploitation of a game play flaw which, hence is cheese.
So yeah I've done it before as I'm sure most all of us have but i've done it very rarely, never for a big gain and never consciously. I can see why people do it alot, because it works, a little bit too well. I know because when I play online vs cheesers it's all I get is Vick running right out to the side and then pulling up icons, if someones open they throw it, if not they run forward and if someone comes up they then throw it and if no one comes up they get a cheep 20 yard scramble on it. Its abuse plain and simple.
No ones saying they couldn't scramble and that's not what this rule is about that I can see, ie stopping QBs who scramble from being able to. Just this method of trickery with the passing icons is what this rule is about so I'm in favor of it. And coming from a team that uses a scrambling QB I think that says something.
One thing I will note though is this almost could be considered a rule which is not needed because it could really fall under the "no abuse of the same method of play" type rule I think. But evidently people need it spelled out for them and I'm all in favor of doing that if it needs to be addressed.
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Post by OCFL Commish on Mar 23, 2004 18:12:36 GMT -5
...I think that the rule is "realistic" the way it is, you see this happen in real games , but it is not abused. I know of teams in this league that use this play everytime they need yardage, and I am sure that it is the reason the rule was written. There is a right way and a wrong way for this "glitch" to be used, and I feel that we are all grown and mature enough to play str8 and not cheese. And as far has playing a QB spy every play to cover it, that isn't fair to the defense to have to call a certain type of play every play "just in case" the other player wants to cheat. That limits the effectivness of the defense.. This I totally agree with and why I worded the rule the way I did. And Alabama hit the nail right on the head when he said, "...use this play everytime they need yardage, and I am sure that it is the reason the rule was written." That was the primary concern and the spirit in which the rule was written. Also I agree with his assesment of Defense in that I shouldn't have to limit my Defense to "Spy" for an entire game" just in case the other player wants to constantly use this tactic as it most definitely hinders a defenses effectiveness. Odogg also beautifully described the vein in which I wrote the rule and the intent of the rule.
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Post by eVAN18wv on Mar 23, 2004 18:24:57 GMT -5
I believe it is fine to bring down the icons and rollout with your QB only when getting pressured. There is no reason that you would need to otherwise, other than the fact that its a quirk in the game because the DB's do not cover as weel when the icons are down. If you're not getting pressured and no one is open and you decide to run with it, i think its fine as long as you don't bring the icons back up to pass. thats my take on it.
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Post by 10shun on Mar 23, 2004 18:31:12 GMT -5
i never roll out (my qb is to slow) but i think its allright cuz thats how some teams run their offense like look at Micheal Vick thats pretty much all he does.
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Post by dol067m on Mar 23, 2004 18:34:37 GMT -5
I think the rule is good because it doesnt hinder people from running when there is none open and the rule allows u to scramble and throw when there is intense pressure on the qb. The rule also doesnt hinder people from rolling out and throwing as long as u dont start to move towards the line of scrimmage and make the defense dedcide to use the db to get the qb or stay back in coverage.
So to my point of view, all the rule does is stop people from rolling out and then faking run to pass.
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Post by rhombic21 on Mar 23, 2004 18:53:51 GMT -5
I think the rule is good because it doesnt hinder people from running when there is none open and the rule allows u to scramble and throw when there is intense pressure on the qb. The rule also doesnt hinder people from rolling out and throwing as long as u dont start to move towards the line of scrimmage and make the defense dedcide to use the db to get the qb or stay back in coverage. So to my point of view, all the rule does is stop people from rolling out and then faking run to pass. Yeah, I can definitely see your point. My only thing is that the rule is kind of hard to understand without demonstrating it, and is sort of vague because of the whole "Once per drive" thing. Personally, I don't understand that thing at all. It's either cheese and needs to be outlawed, or it's something we don't want to mess with. IMO, it's either all or nothing. It won't affect me really, because I have a QB with a SPD rating in the low 50's, so I NEVER scramble unless it's to get outside the tackle box to throw it away, or something of that nature. I think that if the rule could be properly implemented, then it would be great, but it's just kind of hard to do, without being able to actually watch the game develop. I'd worry about people confusing this as a rule against scrambling, which would result in a ton of disputes. In short, I don't know that we NEED this rule, and I'm skeptical about how we could clarify it to make it perfectly understandable for everybody (particularly when new people join the league), but I think that it COULD be a very positive thing if implemented correctly.
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Post by kbell9797 on Mar 23, 2004 19:14:39 GMT -5
I understand and support this new rule. My problem with people online is rolling out and pulling down the passing icons and the popping them back up, tanking advantage of the AI. I would be fine if you either roll out and just ran the football, or rolled out with the passing icons up the whole time without bringing them down and up( being the only time you can run is if you are about to get sacked). Never the less, I support this rule.
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Post by ODogg on Mar 23, 2004 19:23:23 GMT -5
I understand and support this new rule. My problem with people online is rolling out and pulling down the passing icons and the popping them back up, tanking advantage of the AI. I would be fine if you either roll out and just ran the football, or rolled out with the passing icons up the whole time without bringing them down and up( being the only time you can run is if you are about to get sacked). Never the less, I support this rule. That's it in a nutshell, leave the icons up and do what you gotta do, none of that bringing up/pulling em down nonsense. That's what this rule is all about.
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Post by Marino on Mar 25, 2004 11:46:44 GMT -5
I dont like the rule, because if, i get pressure, i will then run to avoid it. and if that means i have to leave the pocket then so be it. but with the rule, then i guess i will just have to run with it, and not even have the option of passing. in college football, there is alot more running with the football with the QB. and like others have said, you can spy the QB.
most the time when i have to leave the pocket, if a blitz is coming. or if the O-Line blows the block.
i never just rollout to just do it, unless it is a designed play, which there are at times. doing this rules hurts teams with mobile QBs only. i think it is unfair, because that is the part of that teams strength. other teams have strength of spread offense, and going 5wide alot, can also be considered cheesy.
so i vote against the rule.
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Post by OCFL Commish on Mar 25, 2004 16:19:41 GMT -5
I dont like the rule, because if, i get pressure, i will then run to avoid it. and if that means i have to leave the pocket then so be it. but with the rule, then i guess i will just have to run with it, and not even have the option of passing. in college football, there is alot more running with the football with the QB. and like others have said, you can spy the QB. most the time when i have to leave the pocket, if a blitz is coming. or if the O-Line blows the block. i never just rollout to just do it, unless it is a designed play, which there are at times. doing this rules hurts teams with mobile QBs only. i think it is unfair, because that is the part of that teams strength. other teams have strength of spread offense, and going 5wide alot, can also be considered cheesy. so i vote against the rule. What I think everyone is focusing on is not the issue. The issue isn't the rollout or running with the ball. It's the ICONS. Using them as an advantage to deceive the AI and your opposing player. All teams can do this. Not just mobile teams, though it's more popular with the mobile QBs cuz they can rack up the yards really fast. It's the fact that that can't really be defended. And some guys would mos def use it every time they were in a 3rd down it's virtually a win/win. If you are under pressure then that's fine to rollout or if you have a designed rollout, but rolling out with that as the FOCAL point of your offense to get the DB in a you decide if you want me to run for 15 or give up the pass for 25 yds is CHEAP! So I agree with the reason the rule was created. If you decide to pull down the icons to escape pressure and run, the RUN, but if you are trying to deceive the Defense through the use of a AI flaw, then I don't agree with that.
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Post by gebooker on Mar 25, 2004 16:30:41 GMT -5
;D The roll amendment is fine as long as it is done once a drive!!
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Post by Bigpep90 on Mar 25, 2004 16:32:45 GMT -5
I agree people should not keep bringing the icons up and down.Once you press the icons down you shouldn't be allowed to bring them back up.I know what you mean bryce it isn't about the rollout but about the icons here.I haven't played too many guys here that do this but i can see a probelm doing this.That is why i don't like playing with a quick qb like shockley.I would rather have a pocket passer anyways.
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Post by OCFL Commish on Mar 25, 2004 16:47:01 GMT -5
I agree people should not keep bringing the icons up and down.Once you press the icons down you shouldn't be allowed to bring them back up.I know what you mean bryce it isn't about the rollout but about the icons here.I haven't played too many guys here that do this but i can see a probelm doing this.That is why i don't like playing with a quick qb like shockley.I would rather have a pocket passer anyways. I'm sure if anyone played Madden 2003 and had the unlucky proposition of having to play in the Pub Rooms vs the Eagles or the Falcons then they know the cheapness/cheesiness that can be accomplished with this tactic when used in a cheap/chessy manner.
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